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	<title>Comments on: Call for Action for the Java Hackers</title>
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		<title>By: Ben</title>
		<link>http://www.gridshore.nl/2009/06/30/call-for-action-for-the-java-hackers/comment-page-1/#comment-24574</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Jul 2009 09:09:28 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Freddie,

You&#039;re looking for a program, implemented in Java, that is a state machine implementation with the concepts of an inheritance hierarchy and authorization built in? So why should I bother hacking my brains out when the type of program you seek is downloadable for free at &lt;a href=&quot;http://java.sun.com&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://java.sun.com&lt;/a&gt;? The Java Virtual Machine, included in every JRE and JDK, is what you&#039;re looking for.

On a more serious note, Freddie, what exactly are you trying to prove? You keep going on ad infinitum about ISIS Papyrus and all its miracles and not having touched Java for such a long time, but what are you really trying to prove here? That Java is a programming language and not an application platform? I don&#039;t think there&#039;s a person in the world who will disagree with that. But at the same time have the decency to acknowledge that you&#039;re comparing apples to wheelbarrows here. I&#039;m not saying that your comparisons are off -- I&#039;m saying that there&#039;s no sense in attempting them.

That said, you want to know whether it is possible to write something like ISIS Papyrus in the Java programming language? Yes. I don&#039;t even have to think about that one. The Java programming language has expressive power equal to that of a Turing Machine, which is also the case for the programming language(s) that went into building ISIS Papyrus and (more importantly) for the processor languages of the processors that RUN Papyrus.

You want to know whether it is possible to implement a state machine in Java? Or an object hierarchy? Or security of any kind, role-based or other? Yes. There are existing examples of all of those and some of them in combination as well (Documentum for instance). There are also systems around that DON&#039;T have those concepts overtly implemented; here&#039;s a shocker for you Freddie, not every system needs them.

Here&#039;s a more important question for you though: so what? None of this is surprising, since all of it is as old as the dawn of time. State machines? Please, there have been state machines since graph theory was invented. Inheritance hierarchies? Have been around since the idea of classification itself.

So what are you trying to prove Freddie? What&#039;s the point?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Freddie,</p>
<p>You&#8217;re looking for a program, implemented in Java, that is a state machine implementation with the concepts of an inheritance hierarchy and authorization built in? So why should I bother hacking my brains out when the type of program you seek is downloadable for free at <a href="http://java.sun.com" rel="nofollow">http://java.sun.com</a>? The Java Virtual Machine, included in every JRE and JDK, is what you&#8217;re looking for.</p>
<p>On a more serious note, Freddie, what exactly are you trying to prove? You keep going on ad infinitum about ISIS Papyrus and all its miracles and not having touched Java for such a long time, but what are you really trying to prove here? That Java is a programming language and not an application platform? I don&#8217;t think there&#8217;s a person in the world who will disagree with that. But at the same time have the decency to acknowledge that you&#8217;re comparing apples to wheelbarrows here. I&#8217;m not saying that your comparisons are off &#8212; I&#8217;m saying that there&#8217;s no sense in attempting them.</p>
<p>That said, you want to know whether it is possible to write something like ISIS Papyrus in the Java programming language? Yes. I don&#8217;t even have to think about that one. The Java programming language has expressive power equal to that of a Turing Machine, which is also the case for the programming language(s) that went into building ISIS Papyrus and (more importantly) for the processor languages of the processors that RUN Papyrus.</p>
<p>You want to know whether it is possible to implement a state machine in Java? Or an object hierarchy? Or security of any kind, role-based or other? Yes. There are existing examples of all of those and some of them in combination as well (Documentum for instance). There are also systems around that DON&#8217;T have those concepts overtly implemented; here&#8217;s a shocker for you Freddie, not every system needs them.</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s a more important question for you though: so what? None of this is surprising, since all of it is as old as the dawn of time. State machines? Please, there have been state machines since graph theory was invented. Inheritance hierarchies? Have been around since the idea of classification itself.</p>
<p>So what are you trying to prove Freddie? What&#8217;s the point?</p>
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